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SKYRIM: A Demonstration of the problem with Papyrus Scripts
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- Category: Giskard's Blog
- Last Updated on Sunday, 17 February 2013 09:08
- Written by Giskard
- Hits: 357
Hello all
Those of you who want to make quest mods will need to know this info. It concerns a pretty serious issue with Papyrus that prevents quest makers from being able to trust language to execute the code given to it time after time after time.
Experience will teach you this and teach you which commands are the worst for causing this problem.
The issue below comes up because Papyrus delays the execution of code that takes too long to run, only I have found it does not so much delay code as forget to run it completely when too much is going on. This is the source of the 1001 random quest errors people keep reporting in Skyrim. This issue can also be caused if too much is going on in your game when code is executed.
This is one example of how to trigger it.
Remember there is a random element to this bug which I am sure is related to the power of the computer the player owns but have yet to confirm.
What I am doing here and how to test for this.
All this code does is add the player to a faction, nothing complicated and certainly nothing that should tax modern cpus. I tested for this in several ways but the best one is to simply place a shield on the floor and give it to the faction the player will be joining. If it says steal on it after the code is run, it means the join code was skipped and the quest is broken, if it the steal code disappears and the player can freely take the shield, then the code worked and so will the quest.
An example of how to safely update quests.
The safest way to update quests is by adding a line like the one below to your quest dialogue result box.
(GetOwningQuest() as TEG_JoinHouseRedoranScript).PlayerQuestioned()
It then calls a function like this directly from your script, which contains all the code you need to run. If you try adding that code to your dialog result box, the problem we are talking about in this post here happens more often.
function PlayerQuestioned()
SetCurrentStageID(10)
dialogcounter = 5
endfunction
The above works fine.
Here is an example that does not work because of how Papyrus runs.
function JoinFinish()
SetObjectiveCompleted(10)
SetCurrentStageID(100)
dialogcounter = 6
Game.GetPlayer().SetFactionRank(TEGHouseRedoran, 0)
Stop()
endfunction
The SetObjectiveCompleted(10) & SetCurrentStageID(100) commands running together causes Papyrus to skip the next few lines of code which breaks the quests. But if we move those lines to bottom and place the vital lines at the top, we can work around this papyrus problem.
So lets fix the above example.
function JoinFinish()
dialogcounter = 6
Game.GetPlayer().SetFactionRank(TEGHouseRedoran, 0)
SetObjectiveCompleted(10)
SetCurrentStageID(100)
Stop()
endfunction
Now only the STOP() function is in danger of being skipped.
The two commands in question cause a sudden spike in activity that is enough to trigger Papyrus to skip the next few lines. Papyrus should queue them and run them later but in my experience it simply forgets about the code completely and breaks the quest that runs it.
Papyrus is like a Goldfish, it keeps forgetting what it was supposed to be doing.
This was a demonstration of one of the ways you can trip papyrus up and break quests simply writing your scripts a certain way and playing them normally. This issue may be CPU speed dependant but this test was performed on a Intel 2.3 ghz Quad Core system and the above code is hardly going to challenge my CPU.
Final Note:
It is known that if you call 2 functions from a result box like this...
(GetOwningQuest() as TEG_JoinHouseRedoranScript).function1()
(GetOwningQuest() as TEG_JoinHouseRedoranScript).function2()
You can cause also trip up Papyrus depending on what code is being run at the time.
TEG House Redoran: First 2 Quests Finished
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- Category: Giskard's Blog
- Last Updated on Thursday, 14 February 2013 11:42
- Written by Giskard
- Hits: 262
Good news, the quests to join House Redoran and the New Temple are all done and working. They way they work should make for a change of pace from constant combat quests. I have done the voice work my self for now but when I get a few more quests done, the lines will probably get posted in the voice actors guild and I'll pick the best submissions to use as replacements for my own lines.
I was tempted to make the Pilgrim Road quest a repeatable one so when the player falls from grace of the temple he can redo it and rejoin the temple but decided against that for now. I think a new stand alone quest would be better and more interesting.
I plan to use some of the tile sets found in Hermaeus Mora temple locations (not the library ones) for other Daedric shrines hidden around Solstheim to support the old House of Troubles daedra and create a subplot between them and the New Temple daedra. So you may find hidden shrines to Malacath, Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, and Sheogorath on Solstheim and using their shrines may bring blessings or a nasty death as the House of Troubles weeds out the weak amongst the New Temples followers.
Technically the house of troubles stood against the Tribunal and so did the New Temple but since Vivec and co are now saints and since the house of troubles has been part of temple culture for 1000s of years. I believe the temple would have kept that part of their culture so I have too.
After all, if you change too much about the temple when creating the new temple, it stops being the temple people followed and starts becoming something else.
These sort of details should add up to a considerable amount of content in the end and make exploring fun even when you have done all the default quests and locations in Dragonborn.
Btw I have 1 location in Dragonborn left to do and I need a key to do that one :)
Dragonborn Mods: Big Picture Time
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- Category: Giskard's Blog
- Last Updated on Wednesday, 13 February 2013 09:24
- Written by Giskard
- Hits: 507
Thanks to steam the days of the big mods are over, now we are limited to 100meg max so mods need to be planned out differently. In the past you may have considered 1 mod, now because of steam you will need to consider several mods that do the same job to get all the features you want.
I need you readers to understand this point because that is the direction I started to head in with Return to Helgen and the planned Storm Crown follow up mod.
The Dragonborn DLC has given is a cool world to play in and I wanted it to be deeper and more substantial. So my plans involve enhancing House Redoran which basically means enhancing Raven Rock. Expanding the Telvanni settlement and added quests to both.
In the old days these would have been one big Solstheim mod, but not any more. These ideas must be split up in to smaller chunks. It is very likely that smaller addons will be made to compliment these mods when they are finished. To add dialog to the citizenry and deliver more side quests so the other mods can focus on House Redoran and the Telvanni.
You may say other joinable Morrowind factions appearing for example, but it is unlikely I will risk wasting space in House Redoran on those ideas due to the 100meg upload limit.
So I want you to consider all mods I make for Solstheim to be 1 big multipart part instead of several stand alone mods. They may work on their own but I am simply splitting up my ideas in to 100meg chunks so I can still work on the Big Picture without having to give up on Steam Workshop and its stupid upload limit.
I'll try and make it clear which mods go together in the docs for the mod in the future.
My intentions for the Dragonborn DLC is to Kvatchify it, make Solstheim an island you can live on and never want to leave. I want to add as much as possible to it so you never run out of things to do. I want it to remind you of Morrowind and will be adding things to the island that achieves that goal.
More ancestor tombs, perhaps a deadric temple or two, small fishing villages, all with side quests. That sort of thing. House Redoran is the first mod I plan to make towards this goal and will be the very heart of the collection when done.
House Redoran
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- Category: Giskard's Blog
- Last Updated on Tuesday, 12 February 2013 18:48
- Written by Giskard
- Hits: 229
Time for an update.
I have been planning out the early part of the House Redoran Mod this week, the first quest was written for it today but still needs voice work and other support quests before I can even test it.
The initial quests I have planned involve testing the player for the Required redoran skill set and checking if the player has performed the necessary temple quests which still need writing. Once done it should fit in nicely with the rest of the game and set the the scene properly.
Morrowind Lore Replies
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- Category: Giskard's Blog
- Last Updated on Saturday, 09 February 2013 16:25
- Written by Giskard
- Hits: 261
Gyphon made some points about Ald'run being buried under a 100 feet of ash etc in the comments of my previous lore blog and I must agree with him on that but I must also add that between Skyrim, Dragonborn and the 2 books, especially the 2 books. The lore surrounding Morrowind contradicts it self heavily.
We were led to believe Morrowind was all but gone, now towns remain.
We were led to believe Vivec city was turned in to a huge lake by the ministry of truth but apparently it is getting rebuilt. Asteriods that big leave MASSIVE craters.
We were led to believe the Argonians conquered most of Morrowind, but it turns out most things are back to normal with the exception of the Argonians, House Hlaalus council seat and the Temple.
Skyrim talked about refugees from Morrowind and I told the story of Telvanni Refugees in my Telvanni Hall mod. Skyrim talked about the last family member of house Telvanni, living in Riften. It was all doom and gloom and suddenly after the Dragonborn DLC is released. 2 books about The Elder Scrolls appear to exaggerated the items they touched upon or simply been wrong.
Making the books worthless as a source of lore or questionable at best.
If you take the in game lore on its own, you have a story of the Red Year, Argonians and Refugees that makes sense without being over the top doom hand gloom. But if you consider how Bethesda must have restricted what could be put in those books, it goes a long way to explaining why the first book reads like some Blackmarsh recipe book rather than a story.
Morrowind Lore Update for Dragonborn Users
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- Category: Giskard's Blog
- Last Updated on Friday, 08 February 2013 08:37
- Written by Giskard
- Hits: 475
A few things first, I have to paint the ceiling today and do the woodwork tomorrow and wall paper next week so work on my Redoran mod will be a little hit and miss due to the distractions.
Also Morrowind fans will find Dragonborn is a MUST HAVE DLC. Seriously, it is worth every penny, passes my £1 per hour test easily and comes close to taking us back to Morrowind.
This Blog outlines the changes to Morrowind lore since Oblivion and should bring you bang up to date. Since this is important lore and big changes have taken place. I will also be posting this on the forum.
First off the lore provided by the 2 Elder Scrolls Books (which I appear to have misplace for the moment...humm) was so brief we can actually ignore them now. The DLC provides details that indicates even the brief outline of what happened to Morrowind was not as bad as it sounded.
The impression the books gave was Morrowind was gone, either conquered by the Argonians or destroyed by Red Mountain. The Argonians only appear to control the southern part of Morrowind and Dumner rebuilt a lot after the Eruption of red mountain.
Red Mountain was supposed to have wiped out Vvardenfell, well it did not. The Redoran where in there 10 days after the eruption rebuilding. Balmora is specifically mentioned as being rebuilt by the Redoran in the books that come with the Dragonborn DLC. So we know that town is back.
Vivec city is completely gone, hit by an asteroid known as the ministry of truth.
Ald'run was destroyed during the Oblivion Crisis and wiped out again by the Eruption of Red Mountain 5 to 6 years later according to the lore from Oblivion and the Dragonborn DLC. No mention of it after that is seen but given it was rebuilt in less than 6 years previously, that means nothing.
The Argonians where supposed to have conquered Morrowind, well they did not, the Redoran stopped them before they conquered the whole of Morrowind. I would guess the new Morrowind probably follows the Vvardenfell coastline that the Redoran controlled and the parts of Morrowind bordering Skyrim as well as Solstheim.
The capital of Morrowind is now Blacklight in the North of Morrowind not far from Skyrim and the Redoran lead the council now. House Hlaalu have been kicked off the council as Imperial sympathisers.
House Telvanni has a small settlement on Solstheim and dialog briefly mentions other Telvanni mages. Since Telvanni settlements are grown by mages as described in my Telvanni Hall mod which deals with Telvanni refugees to Skyrim, we can assume those mages also grew their own settlements.
But Skyrim lore is clear that only 1 member of the actual Telvanni Family remains and he gets locked up for theft in riften. So House Telvanni is now led by Master Wizards that are NOT related by blood to the Telvanni family.
The old Tribunal was blamed for the Eurption of Red Mountain and the destruction of Vivec city. Truth is the ministry of truth crashed in to vivic city and caused Red Mountain to erupt after Vivec was believed to have been captured by the Daedra. All the Tribunes are believed to be dead now, including Vivec and the dissidents that follow the Ashlander ways have taken over the temple and reestablished daedra worship. So the Temple has completely changed too.
Azura, Mephala and Boethia are worshipped instead and collectively known as the Reclamations. I believe this draws a line under the old Neverine betray by Vivic and co.
House Indoril being heavily involved in the priest hood not only took a lot of damage from the fall of the Tribune but is now the House all Priests are considered to me a member of when they become Priests of the New Temple.
House Redoran earned a reputation as Morrowinds protectors and House Telvanni remain Morrowinds master wizards. House Hlaalu are all but outcasts. So the great houses have had a shake up but the lore does clearly state that whilst this state of affairs has lasted a few hundred years already, whether it will last longer than that is anybodies guess. So we may see more changes in the future.
Solstheim was Imperial and Redoran where allowed to set up shop there by the Empire and even took over security for it during the Oblivion Crisis. When the Ebony mine at Raven Rock (the town built by the player in the Solstheim DLC for Morrowind) ran dry, most imperials left Solstheim and when Red Mountain exploded, the Jarls of Skyrim gave Solstheim to the Dunmer in the hope refugees would go there insteads of coming to Skyrim. Redoran being there already seem to have taken charge of the Island.
It is now considered to be part of Morrowind and is refereed to as Morrowind.
Argonians also attacked Solstheim and was repelled by the Elite Redoran Guard stationed there.
All of this was extracted form lore books and Dragonborn dialogue. Some of it inferred rather than specifically mentioned so the lore door is open on those points and not closed, anything could happen. Especially to the Telvanni which is one door Beth left WIDE OPEN in the Dragonborn DLC but learns towards Business as usual for them. So do not count them out yet. The rumours of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.
House Redoran Mod
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- Category: Giskard's Blog
- Last Updated on Thursday, 07 February 2013 22:08
- Written by Giskard
- Hits: 365
I have started researching my next mod which will require the Dragonborn DLC and will heavily edit Solsthiem. To give you some background to mod, here is some basic lore from the Dragonborn DLC.
I have not decided on a name for this mod yet but it will focus on House Redoran. I have included an overview of what I am thinking about at the bottom of this blog.
Background Lore.
The old Tribunal gods " Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vivec" have been demoted to saints and believed dead, the worse of them is put down to "a result of misguided teaching". The New Temple now follows dissident and Ashlander beliefs, worshipping Azura, Mephala and Boethia instead, who are now known as the Reclamations.
House Indoril lost a great deal of power when the Tribunal fell, but thanks to the number of priests within House Indoril, they now fill the void left by the Tribunal. Joining the New Temple Priest Hood is considered to be Joining House Indoril.
House Hlaalu are no longer on the council having profited from Imperial rule at Morrowinds expense and gotten cast out off the council as a result. They blame House Redoran for their fall and now plan House Redorans downfall as an act of revenge. They spend a lot of money preparing the ground work for revolts and other trouble which will happen a more in the future.
House Telvanni survives but House Redoran does not trust them because they tried to take over House Redoran and temple land before the eruption of red mountain. Despite the lost of the Telvanni family (except for 1 lost member in riften), Master Wizards continue to build cities and rule over them in the name of House Telvanni. Not a lot has changed for them in this respect but House Redoran tries to keep them at arms length.
House Redoran did more than any other house to give aid after the eruption of Red Mountain and stopped the Argonian invasion from taking over Morrowind completely. They pushed out House Hlaalu from the Council and now lead the council having proven their strength and loyalty.
The duty of members of House Redoran is first to the Temple, then to House Redoran, then to their family and clan.
Warriors wear heavy or medium armour and fight with swords, spears and shields. Where as nobles also use bows. To join house Redoran, an outsider much prove their skill in those areas.
The Mod
The mod will follow the player as he tries to join House Redoran, allowing him or her to rise to become a Redoran Noble and establish his or her own clan within House Redoran.
House Redoran will demand the player have a min skill of 25 in sword, shield and heavy armour before being accepted as a member. To become a noble in House Redoran the player will need a score of 50 in Sword, Shield, Heavy Armour and Archery.
As a member of House Redoran the player becomes the enemy of House Hlaalu who will turn up from time to time to undermine the plans of House Redoran in Solsthiem.
Also a member of House Redoran is expected to follow the temples doctrine and perform tasks for the New Temple. So the player follow the ways of Azura, Mephala and Boethia and through his faith, loyalty and dedication to the ways of House Redoran, rise to become a Noble of that great house.
Malacath, Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal and Sheogorath will be there to test the players faith and weed out any weaknesses, should the player faultier, allow him self to be temped by these members of the house of troubles. He will lose status and have to fight hard to regain the respect he has lost.
Redorans rule over Solsthiem is not secure.
Argonians have already attacked the island once and may do so again, perhaps several times if I have anything to do with it :)
The player may get the mine running in Raven Rock but the rest of the Island belongs to bandits and savages. If House Redoran and the Dumner are to survive they must secure their lines of supply, become more self sufficient and deal with the bandit threat outside the walls of Raven Rock.
After joining House Redoran, Councillor Morvayn assigns the player to helping secure Redorans position on the Island and help elevate its importance to the rest of House Redoran in Blacklight.
Establishing farms, mines and small settlements to supply Raven Rock.
Notes about House Telvanni
I have separate plans for the Telvanni settlement on Solstheim, it will feature in it's own mod and will expand the settlement so its not just a wizard and his staff but a small town with guards. So the Telvanni will not feature too heavily in this mod.
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