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 Origin of the Mages Guild Lore




This is where I explain some of the more interesting topics covered in this mod or would have been. You might expect lore to be static, unmoving, unchanging, known, not disputed but the fact is one lore can could not agree on the time of day with another if you asked them. Most ignore certain facts that do not suit their own argument's or selectively choose what they wish to believe. Well I had to do my own research and my research is a combination of books and Oblivion game content where as some Lore fans have a combination of Books and previous game content. Which may make them sound like they know what they are talking about but the fact is many have ignored how Oblivion has taken changed the game lore because they prefer Morrowind.


Well I have no axe to grind here but I needed to know facts and as a result of disagreements, I have had to chose for my self what is or is not game lores right and here is where I get the chance to explain those choices my demonstrating how each GREY AREA fits within the game lore. I say grey area, but I mean solid facts, others consider these grey areas, I do not.


Vanus Quests:


Mannimarco the King of Worms, Mannimarco the God of Worms.


Some endings like the Daggerfall ending for the Worm King show him rising to become a God but that ending was one of many endings and is considered to be only one possible version of events by some lore fans. Which may have been true in Morrowind but Oblivion has made that grey area black and white and removed the confusion. Here some selected notes from Oblivion that can easily be added to a guide to explain what I mean. Other proof exists but Ido not think I need more than this to make my point.


Altars have been raised; Anchorites have been called. Watch the skies; once a week His Grace shines down on us.


Place your Grand Soul Gems in the altar. Pray for His Blessing, and strike the altar with your Soul Trap magic. Your gems will become instruments of His Divine Power.


The God of Worms watches over our Order, and will deliver us from these troubled times on the Day of Reckoning. Until then, perform His works in secret, serve His needs, and look to the skies for His signs.


The very way the Grand Soul Gems are converted to Black Soul Gems is an indication that some God is active here. This means the whole story surrounding the Akatosh Jills fixing the Warp in the west and the rise of Mannimarco to God Hood as the God of Worms must be the adopted story for Oblivion, so I have adopted that version of events for this mod. There is simply too much evidence to ignore it. That means there are 2 Mannimarcos thanks to the Jills of Akatosh splitting the God of Worms in two whilst fixing the Warp in the West. A King of Worms who is Mortal and a God of Worms who is Immortal are both Mannimarco and both exist. The the Mage Guild quest line you defeated the King of Worms.


Now here is a question for you, if you where a God and a Mortal at the same time and somebody killed your Mortal self, could you as the most powerful Necromancer of all time and a GOD bring your mortal self back to life at any time you saw fit. I think the answer to that is definitely "HELL YES" and will be exploring this aspect of the game lore further in this mod. Currently this interpretation is entirely optional but I think the case is solid enough to make it a required quest line in the future.


Socially Unacceptable: Daedra Summoning.


The Daedric studies quest was originally intended to be the theory below but the EXPERTS did not have a clue about this and rather than study up as I had to do to make this mod, they just disputed this theory to death until I decided not to use it. I did as an act of revenge turn the quest around and use it as a lesson in daedric summoning. I provided books needed to for YOU to learn what I have learned, not my books, these are books beth wrote. I provided speeches to highlight which area of interest in Oblivion and I put this topic firmly in your minds so when you do explore the game and talk to NPCs, like I had too, you will be paying attention to the small details that prove this theory to be correct. Next time this topic comes up, if you are paying attention, you will not need me to explain the fine print because you will have seen it for your self and may even be able to make amendments to this theory below


The Theory.....


The Everscamp quest suggests the Mages Guide kick members who help others summon Daedra but because we see them summoning inside the guild halls at Chorrol and Bruma and know that the everscamp quest takes place outside the guild halls, the conclusion I draw is that the Mages Guild kick people for summoning daedra in public or outside of the guilds carefully controlled environment. This is reasonable and backed up completely by the book The Doors of Oblivion which suggests Daedra Summoning is dangerous and needs to be done in carefully controlled situations. In that book a Master Conjurer enlists the help of another Master so he can safely summon Daedra for study. It is not because its hard to do, any apprentice can summon daedra, no its because the summoned daedra are dangerous. All of which backs up the case I believe to be true.


Some lore fans disagree. The truth is, I have had to listen to some pretty stupid counter argument's against this, arguments that assume Beth screwed up rather than believe the evidence. Such lore fans selectively choose what they want to believe and advertise their own findings as fact. One even dared tell me that Mage Guild members will summon daedra outside if you smack them over the head with with a sword first and run out of the guild hall. I nearly died laughing. Sure he was right but that is hardly game lore, its game mechanics and those NPCs never EVER leave the guild halls unless you do smash them over the head first. The fact is, if you watch any Mages Guild member, not one of them summons Daedra outside of the Guild halls or Arcane university. That was just one of the stupid counter argument some lore fans presented to me.


The Everscamp Quest demonstrated that daedra summoning and worship is conducted in secret. This is backed up by rumours from hundreds of NPCs around game and various shrines as well as Martin's own comments about the daedric artefact you collected for him and the NPC who owns the Alchemy shop in skingrad that will tell you how she was taken at night to one shrine and there for could not remember the route. The rumours indicate anything Daedra related is socially unacceptable during this time frame but the books and game suggest this is not always the case and differs from region to region around the world (other older game regions). So there are exceptions but the Oblivion world spaces are against Daedric, that's the only fact here worth remembering.


The other thing the Everscamp quest demonstrates is that you can be booted for helping somebody who is practising Daedra summoning because the person the who needs help is not a Guild member and has summoned scamps in her own home. The person she needs help from is a Mage in the Leyawiin branch who secretly helps her. The women who summoned the scamps using the Everscamp staff is worried her friends may think she is a daedra worshiper and wishes her secret to remain a secret. The Mage fears expulsion from the guild if she is caught helping her friend.


Chorrol and Bruma Guild halls both have members who summon daedra inside the guild. These members never leave the guild halls so only ever summon inside the guild.


This demonstrates a good and bad way to summon daedra, summoning in within the Guild halls and Arcane university is good, summoning outside the Guild halls and Arcane university is bad.


The evidence is the NPCs actions, most daedric shrine rumours, The Doors of Oblivion and many other sources.


In case your wondering why I am presenting this argument with ANAL like precision is because I often had to post theories that read more like legal documents whilst debating this with some lore fans who clearly had been caught with their pants down on a topic they had not studied up on. Since I have confessed to not being a lore fan, that was kind of embarrassing for them. So some ripped in to the theory using excuses like "HOME" does mean mean the same thing as "NOT IN THE GUILD HALL".


Anyway back on topic, all the facts explain how dangerous and how socially unacceptable daedric summoning is, and how even Master has to be careful to enlist the help of a second Master of Conjuration to remain safe. Not because it is hard to do but because it is not, any apprentice can summon daedra, it is because it is dangerous to do. After a few incidents of people summoning daedra and then watching them run around, out of control in city killing citizens you can imagine how the population would feel towards Daedra worship and summoning and why the woman with the staff would want it to remain a secret.


You can also see why the Mage would fear being booted if she was seen to get the Guild involved with something like that. Imagine the result of a death caused by some Daedra running out of control and a mages guild member being named as one of those involved. You can see and fully understand the Guilds position on this. Also you can see why they have rules even if we never hear those rules in the game.


Enter the conjurers, these guys look like Mage guild members but they primarily summon daedra. It always confused me why a Mage of the Mages Guild would attack me the Archmage on sight. Playing such an impressive game and then getting attack by those Mages was like finding a Ford escort parked in the stable, it just made no sense, Beth would not screw up that badly and made bad guys that looked like Mages guild members unless they wanted me to see there was a connection, e.g. they where EX members. Until I started researching the Daedric topic for the Daedric studies department, this continued to confuse me. I found that mages could kicked for messing with Daedra, summoned or artefacts (Everscamp Quest, rumours, shrines, NPCs supply the proof here) and that these guys summoned daedra all the time and did not bother taking the sort of safety measures that Master Morian Zenas described as necessary in the book "The Doors of Oblivion".


This is what the book says about Master Morian Zenas.


"The greatest mage who ever lived was my master Morian Zenas. You have heard of him as the author of the book 'On Oblivion,' the standard text for all on matters Daedric. Despite many entreaties over the years, he refused to update his classic book with his new discoveries and theories because he found that the more one delves into these realms, the less certain one is. He did not want conjecture, he wanted facts"


So you could say he is an authority on the topic, this is the procedure he used to summon daedra for study, taken from that book.


"Zenas too was a Master of Conjuration - indeed, a Master at all the known and unknown Schools - but he did not want to rely on his ability alone in the most perilous of his research. In an underground vault, he summoned Daedra to interview them on their native land, and for that he needed another Conjurer to make certain they came, were bound, and were sent away again without incident."


As you can see, what those conjurers do is nothing at all like what the Master Morian Zenas recommends.


So how would the Mages Guild react when some of their members did summon daedra for fun. Given what I have just told you. I think they would be booted out of the guild.


I think the Daedric Shrine Rumours, Martins speech about Daedric artefact and all the many sources that say Daedra are bad, when combined with the hard copy books that most people know about points to 1 conclusion and that is the summoning and worshiping daedra was not only socially unacceptable but against guild rules. And since the imperial battlemages and the arcane university battlemages are actually one and the same, this would indicate that the Mages Guild actually have the job of policing those conjurers and taking care of problems.


Despite firmly believing this theory is 100% spot on, I have so far only used the part that says Summoning is dangerous which comes directly from the book Doors of Oblivion and is beyond dispute.


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