49 replies to this topic

[giskard]

Hello all

I really hate having to leave mods for months due to bugs, usually by the time i get back to them I have forgotten what I wanted to do and lost my way. This is happening with every mod I planned for skyrim thanks to many issues with the current game and the modding tool kits Beth has provided.

But we all know the game needs more Guilds and more Guild Quests, that has not and never will change. Fact is though there is very little to use in the game for those guilds because the game does not have a lot in it, its just one big massive worldspace and everything else has been stripped down.

But assuming they have fixed the navmesh and not broken the script commands needed for the sort of mods I usually make. I think focusing on guild production is probably the single most needed thing in Skyrim right now. Especially since everything appears to be level locked (my skyrim overhaul does a reasonable job of off setting that btw).

I was thinking a series of single building guilds scattered around various towns and villages that focused on stuff Skyrim needs.

For example.

A Fighters Guild Branch
Either letting the player form it or join one somebody else setup

A Necromancer Guild.
A Firemage Guild
A Frostmage Guild
A Shockmage Guild

A Hunters Guild
A Merchants Guild
A Smithy Guild
A Alchemy Guild
A Dwemer Relic Hunters Guild

And so on.... there are plenty of options here that would make a massive difference to the game.

With that in mind, tell me what you think of this and what you want to see, lets get a feel for what everybody out there wants or feels the game needs on the guild front.

Just remember anything that easier to make and adds a lot to the game has a better chance of being created than grand ideas that add little to the game but takes months to make.

Whilst your thinking about this, think of good locations for certain guilds.

[simfamSP]

Fighters Guild

I think the first instinct would be Whiterun, but that wouldn't make any sense would it? The Companions are there, and for all I know, the Fighters guild are just a bunch of mercenaries. The Companions seem like your elite Power-Ranger squad.

So where would they get the most work? These guys are sellswords so they'll be either fighting in wars or playing at bodyguard. I think the most logical area would be Windhelm.

Ulfric could use the men.
Its a popular hub.
If you look at the map, all the main roads are convinently placed.
There are a lot of bandits in the mountains and Winterhold is nearby, the Mages could use mercenaries for expeditions. (Not that it has to be shown in the mod, I'm just thinking of logical ideas.)
The hub is formidable and large enough for a big office.

I think the player should be able to form it. There are a lot of free lance mercenaries around, and since we do a lot of adventuring then it gives us something to do. But that entierly depends on what the modder wants ;-) xD

A hunters guild would do well in the south. Falkreath and Riften seem to have the better country side and most game. But then, why would people hire them if there's enough? I'm reading to much into it, but its always nice to fill in the holes so that trolls don't come out later with enough hyperbole to feed 3/4 of the world. So its either were there is most game, or less game. On one side, the jobs will be easy, but less jobs will be available. On the other, the jobs won't be easy, but there will be more of them.

The merchants guild worked fine in CUO, I think the same should be done here, no?

A smith guild would be a huge industry if they managed to get them all working together. The same goes for an Alchemy guild, and hey, the Hunters guild too. Infact, they look like possible candidates for branches of the Merchants guild.

For the mages? I better leave those ideas for the ones who don't think of wacky things xD

[DOW]

I think adding guilds is a good idea, here is my take on the guilds.

Hunters guild should be near Whiterun, as it has not most animals. I think. Also it has that lodge inside Whiterun, maybe it could be connected to their.

A fighters guild seems very imperial and the most imperial hold is Solitude, so I think it would fit in there.

The Necromancer guild and all the others, are you going to give them names? Lore names or just something more imaginative?
Pyromancers Guild Located near Falkreath or Markarth. Markarth because the city is made of stone and they fear fire less. These could be good people or just mage mercenary's working for the Silver Bloods.

The necromancer guild should be near Falkreath, as they have the biggest cemetery.

The frost mage guild, near Winterhold or Windhelm. I would say evil and they terrorise the peoeple in Eastmarch? A name, Winter Wizards or Snow mages? The building name could be Winters Lodge, or Snowy Lodge.

Shock mages, I think these should be something related to the Thalmor. So Summer set mages, they should be in the warmest part of Skyrim. They should also be mostly high Elves and Bosmer.

Merchants guild, in every town. I think the name speaks for them nicely.

Alchemy guild, maybe this should be more of a department in the college of Winterhold?

Dwemer Relic hunters should be in Dawnstar/ Markarth. They have a lot of Dwemer ruins in those areas. Name, Dwemer Hunters.

I know you were planning a Synod bit in Solitude once you had done the legion, however they might fit in nicely with all these smaller guilds.

Oh I think all these should be already up and running and the player should not become the head of any of these. You can do that in the normal game, I think not being in charge would be best. I would say not raising beyond second in commander, and that way you might be asked to do the normal jobs that a boss probably would not. Hiring people might be fun also, to expand them once you arrive.

[HappyMonday]

More Guilds,the better.I'll expand on that a bit later.

It's best to consider Skyrim (assuming navmesh bug fix) a half finished canvas in my eyes.It keeps my spirits up to consider the game a blank canvas on which talented modders can do their thing,rather than the enormous bag of nails it's turning out to be.

[Nowena]

I think a Dwemer relic hunters guild would probably call themselves an Antiquities Guild and they'd probably have a dusty little hole in Markarth. They'd probably have a little library and museum there and while trying to collect relics and books and find a way to make these available to their members for studies, they'd also spend much time arguing with the "official" relic hunters from the Jarl and the Imperials. The guild members would be the purists - in it for what they could learn - and frustrated by all the adventurers who are just looking for a quick buck.

They'd probably have a lot of trouble with thieves, beaurocrats, and the friction between all the many groups hunting for the same relics. Without any official benefactor, they'd spend a lot of their time trying to smooth feathers between Imperialist groups and native groups so that battles won't erupt that might destroy rare artifacts. That is, when they're not busy trying to keep what's already been found from disappearing into the pockets of solitary collectors and the many thieves attracted by the high prices they might get from pickpocketing the stuff or stealing it from the many bickering groups and hauling it off to Riften, perhaps, to sell to the Thieves Guild.

No doubt they would be interested in new recruits that used their wits more than their swords to locate and return missing items that have already been sold somewhere (need to find them by making solid contacts among less savory types). Battles might destroy fragile items and killing everyone that knows anything would probably mean a missing item will stay lost forever.

[BetaWolf]

I agree with DOW that the imperial guilds would be in Solitude and thereabouts. Maybe spread with the course of the civil war? I'd think there would be demand in the Reach, too, for the FG. It would be nice to give the two MG factions a place in Skyrim, again with a focus on Solitude.

The Imperial Cult is there but it's not so organized. The quests for Mara are interesting I guess, but not like Morrowind's, which I remember had some interesting twists to it. Maybe the ability to help the Talos Cult, within and without the Legion (where there might still be some adherents--it is part of the Legion's traditions after all).

[DOW]

To expand slightly on Nowena's idea, and to make each guild feel intergrated properly, I think some quests should use some of the factions already in the game.

A fighters guild might use the Legion.
A alchemy guild would use the College
Dwemer faction would also use the college for research.
Hunters guild might use the companions for training.
A smithy guild would talk to many of the factions, Stormcloaks and imperials.
A necromancer guild, which should be more about science, might have contracts for the DB to get fresh bodies. No questions asked. And if you destroy the DB then the Necromancers guild have to find them by others means. Grave digging in Falkreath.

I very much like the idea of a imperial cult faction. BTW as some of these are very imperial and solitude is full as it is, maybe they could be places on the out side of the wall? They have a court yard.

I think a very nice big MQ to go with all of this is important also, maybe a few main quests. One for mage types, one for fighter types and one for stealth.

Oh and rivalry might be a good thing in this. So the necromancers guild and the college would hate each other and you can not join both. Same for the Fighters guild and companions. Maybe a rival thieves guild also, I think one is mentioned in game.

morag tong, need I say more?

[DOW]

I was thinking of other guilds you could add, very small ones but still I think they might add depth.

Daedra ones, so not every daedra but a few. Perhaps the ones that are most accepted?

So a small Meridia faction, they would not be public about what they do. I do not think any of them would be. However they could have a building near the shrine of Meridia and Solitude, so they are near Meridia and a location that they can get supplies from. Their disguise could be a Inn.

How about one for Azura however they have no building, it is just a few citizens in Windhelm who worship her in a basement? you can join them once you have her favour, and they ask things of you. Such as getting something for them so they can offer it to Azura, and maybe bully some of the Nords so they stop harassing them?

A Mehrunes Dagon one, which could be related to the Fire mages guild or Pyromancers guild? Only the people in charge, who could be a inner circle of mages, would worship him and they do not let others out side the circle know. That way the Firemage guild appears good but has evil people leading it.

Also how about expanding on existing guilds, such as the college? Departments that do things in secret?

[pingtimeout]

Necromancer or conjurer's guild near Ilinalta's Deep. The location was already previously used for research on Azura's star and occassionally the radiant engine sends necromancer's to hunt the bearer of Azura's Star. I thought about Falkreath due to the cemetary, but it also has a sizeable portion of heroes due to the whole honoured dead thing, and necromancy/daedra worship/etc. don't exactly fit well in habitable areas. This would also be a decent spot to add abilities from an evil group attempting to continue/recreate Malyn's work.

Dawnstar would be a decent location for Illusionist research due to the difficulties the town experienced with the tower/miasma effect. There is a tower available for an evil villain headquarters, and it could work well for alchemical/dream research based upon leftover material from the prior cult presence.

Markarth would be a decent site for mercantilism due to the Silver-Blood presence. You could also use the Thieves' Guild as a tie-in to this due to the completion mission providing patrons in major holds and the Khajjit for smuggling for more illicit items. Balmora Blue et al. for everyone

A magically-inclined vampiric guild could be based out of Solitude. Sybile Stentor, the court mage, is a vampire (she shows up under detect dead and Erikur (I think) mentions being imprisoned is generally bad if she's having a bad day and she comments she prefers her current surroundings after sending the PC to destroy a vampire coven).

For illicit college research the smuggler guy who's name just escaped be could be a point of contact for quests, cleaning up things that would besmirch the college's name, etc.

[Robert]

I'd hold off on the necromancers for now, as it seems Dawnguard might add something along those lines with their vampires, undead realm and whatnot. Otherwise an evil group like that might have been the most interesting one to explore.

A non combat focused, crafting or trader oriented guild sounds most interesting and its something Skyrim really lacks. I could easily see a smithing guild do quests to retrieve dwemer artifacts and lore, as well as hunting to gather supplies. I would surgest such a guild to be based out of Markarth. If it turns out to be more of a merchants/trader guild then perhaps Solitude as its the Empire's lifeline to the region. This could also include the alchemists, not to mention much more varied content. Wouldn't it be cool to have to work to improve the shops' gold reserves/selection rather than the vanilla solution of picking speechcraft perks? (not that both couldnt work together mind you)

Some kind of outlaw faction could also be fun. Like if your bounty is high enough some (or all?) bandits leave you alone and you get access to bandit strongholds in the region for trade etc. In Markarth perhaps this is the Forsworn, but really why is this the only region that has its own outlaw group? How about the Blackblood Marauders near Solitude or Borgnash's coven of Spellswords in Falkreath? What if there was a friendly/non violent solution to the splinter mages that stole all the college books and you could join them?

Lastly, I really miss the spybusiness from Morrowind. Even if it was only for a little while, there were several occasions there were I really felt like a spy. The blades only have the one infiltration quest which I felt was a shame. Some kind of information network could be a lot of fun. A Skyrim master of whisperers perhaps?

[giskard]

I like DOWs original post, I mostly agree with it though I had not considered the fighters guild as imperial enough for solitude but it fits, I would have considered some place around the borders of skyrim since it was founded by the Akvari and subject to an imperial charter which provents it getting involved in wars.

The Necromancers would not operate openly, perhaps one of the city Cypts could be subverted in to a necromancer lair.

Lots of interesting possibilities here, of course the Dwemer Guild would be in Markarth and would probably be a kind of engineering guild

I am thinking that each guild can be a single building with some key characters in them providing background and lore and about dozen quests each along side permanent features that keep on being useful to the player. Its a kind of basic formula to base the versions 1s on.

[Schmidy]

I agree with DOW that the fighters Guild would be used more by the Legion, they are from Cyrodil in the first place thus I see it more of a Legion brought someone from one of the cities to start up a fighters guild.

I also like the idea of the player being able to join, rise to the "top" and to then have the option to go to a city of his choice to start his own. However, this is where it could get tricky, not sure whether you can make it that he can hire his own "assistant" who will run the guild while the player is away.

Anyway thats my two cents on the topic!

[DOW]

I dislike the idea that you should be able to get to the top, or if you can make it very long and hard with some big climactic fights or hard mission.

As for features.
Smithy guild, improve armour with out the character having to have smithing.
Dwemer, A centery companion?
The merchants guild, a carriage in every hold and town? Even to smaller ones.
Necromancer guild, maybe become a lich? You could use the vampire lord stuff in the DLC, as I guess most of the content would be added in a patch.
Fire, frost and shock guilds, all adding enchantments for free with their type of magic. A example, fire mage guild would add one fire related enchantments such as resist fire or increase fire damage.
Hunters Guild, better bows and arrows. fletching?
Morag Tong, please add these. I think a war with the DB would be great lol.

[simfamSP]

I like DOWs original post, I mostly agree with it though I had not considered the fighters guild as imperial enough for solitude but it fits, I would have considered some place around the borders of skyrim since it was founded by the Akvari and subject to an imperial charter which provents it getting involved in wars.

The Necromancers would not operate openly, perhaps one of the city Cypts could be subverted in to a necromancer lair.

Lots of interesting possibilities here, of course the Dwemer Guild would be in Markarth and would probably be a kind of engineering guild

I am thinking that each guild can be a single building with some key characters in them providing background and lore and about dozen quests each along side permanent features that keep on being useful to the player. Its a kind of basic formula to base the versions 1s on.

If they're called 'The Engineering Guild' I'm hoping for simfamSP to be the one complimenting every piece of trash coming in xD

[HappyMonday]

There is a mod that adds carriages to every hold with stops at smaller towns and villages. Scenic travel or fast travel your choice.

Too bad we don't have more women voice actors. I would like to see/hear more women in important roles both good and evil. Plenty of ideas here if Beth just gives modders the tools to do something really good.

Reminds me, I must chase up the girls who said they fancied giving it a bash for the next round of mods.

[HappyMonday]

I dislike the idea that you should be able to get to the top, or if you can make it very long and hard with some big climactic fights or hard mission.

Make it so you can only get to the top IF you make the right choices I say.

I'm just pulling things out at random here, I'll read through properly later, but this just occurred:

On the point of smithing / traders guilds, it'd be interesting to see a situation where NPC's seek the character out trying to sell them artifacts at random, and those artifacts could either be real and worthy or fake and worthless.
You could also barter the price to some extent with them I think, and try and build dialogue which allows you to uncover whether the NPC is a con artist or not.

Has anybody ever considered where all the coins/currency in use in Skyrim are made too? A kind of Imperial Mint guild is a weird but potentially amusing idea.

[giskard]

Good ideas, keep posting.

Btw it is against the Fighters Guild Charter to do anything such as fighting civil wars, working for empires, or counts or kings, they are restricted to working for the little people. So they cannot actually work for the legion either. That would make them a private army and would be in breach of their charter.

One of the things I am thinking about is how each guild is going to feel unique, the magic guilds especially need to feel unique. A big roaring fire in the middle for the fire mages strikes me as one way to make the guild look interesting where as a tower in the middle of snowy wastes or in a snowy town would work for frost mages.

Shock mages would probably be housed in some sort of dwemer structure and use dwemer tech to make their shock spells more dangerous or something like that.

[CNC]

Well.....I dont see much about Dwemer muesum given Markarth already has that but what about a Great House........Given Morrowind is nothing but ash and dirt and Dark Elfs haven is the island north of Morrowind which im sure is packed full to the brim of Dark Elfs and Nords. Not to mention Dark Elfs Faith and traditions is completely shattered.

Wouldn't surprise me with all the Dark Elf refugees and homeless (well like there should be) and how they are treated like second class citizens some would band together to find there way trying to save some old traditions like Great House(perhaps with a new n and try preserve Dwemer artifacts, Morrowind Books and History (perhaps Dunmer secrets on forging better ebony given its there native resource or better reanimation spells given there old ways)and though that trying to rebuild there culture old and anew(perhaps fur coats to combat the cold and realize with the Nords mostly tolerating them they should at least accept some of there ways)
With fighting the odd bandit attack or so


This could start off small but can hold alot of ideas and expansion if seen fit

Also for a fighters guild I would imagine ships would be the best choice and to a degree pirates. I noticed alot of the shores in the north unguarded and after a few quests dealing with pirates would imagine the problem is quite huge and given there would be alot of ships going from and to the island north of Morrowind pirates would be aplenty along the shores.

Ships would give need to allow the fighters guild its own base separate from the main land or city's (like have a ferryman to offer fast travel to a ship off the bay from solitude and/or windhelm) or make own harbor somewhere in the north housing the fighters guild and ships

I doubt the wolves of the companions like to get there fur wet either

[DOW]

About the shock mages maybe they could be housed in a tower, where there is constant lightning around then and on top of the tower there is a lightning rod. Inside the lightning would go down a metal rod to the ground and every few minutes you would see the flash of light?

I very much like the idea of a few Morrowind things appearing in Skyrim. Just because a lot of them came to Skyrim, so I think they might try and rebuild something.

What could happen is you could have a small settlement that has 3 long houses. One for each great house, and you can only join one. These could be near a mine and it would be a self sustaining community.

[Vagn]

About the shock mages maybe they could be housed in a tower, where there is constant lightning around then and on top of the tower there is a lightning rod. Inside the lightning would go down a metal rod to the ground and every few minutes you would see the flash of light?

I very much like the idea of a few Morrowind things appearing in Skyrim. Just because a lot of them came to Skyrim, so I think they might try and rebuild something.

What could happen is you could have a small settlement that has 3 long houses. One for each great house, and you can only join one. These could be near a mine and it would be a self sustaining community.

Did any of the great houses survive as a power? The Telvanni didn't, but I'm not sure about the others, of course there's the possibility of extremist/traditionalist Dunmer trying to establish a new Great house, especially with the racism they face in Stormcloak territories.