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[giskard]

Wizards of Winterhold V2.0

For Skyrim
By Giskard
Website = http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk
Download from Steam Workshop
Download Link

Wow Version 1 Video


Introduction

As we all know the mages game in Skyrim is sadly lacking and the best place to go if your a mage has one of the shortest questline in the game. Allowing the player to go from a nobody to Archmage in just a few quests without actually knowing much magic. Winterhold it self was supposed to be a city but the whole area leaves you with a feeling Beth ran out of time before release and had to dump down the whole mage/winterhold idea in to a small village and created the great collapse story to explain it in order to make the 11.11.11 Skyrim release deadline.
As a result there is very little reason to return to the College of Winterhold after the Colleges quests are completed.

That is were this mod comes in.

About the Wizards of Winterhold

This mod makes the College of Winterhold a lot more useful both during and after the college plot is completed, making it a lot more like real College. It does not try and be another Mages Guild and should not be confused with the Mages Guild. It follows the established lore for an independent school of magic which automatically makes it very different from everything the Mages Guild represented before it was disbanded.

This mod adds trainers for each school of magic but does not actually teach magic as schools of magic as classes, that was a Mages Guild idea and has no place in an independent college. Instead it adds areas of study for Dwemer, Dragons, Necromancy & Daedra, all areas of interest within Skyrim. Within those areas, the traditional schools of magic are used to help research Dwemer, Dragons, Necromancy, Daedra and more.
This is not a strict lore mod with all the restrictions that would have come with that title but it is however a lore mod and respects the established lore and expands on it. The expanding part is why this cannot be a strict lore mod. Strict lore is set in stone and cannot be expanded upon.

The Necromancer game for example is greatly expanded and explained in this mod instead of just being about bones and conjuration. Giving far more role play opportunities for the player.

This mod also adds new new merchants, making certain robes available for the first time, unenchanting dragon masks and other robes so you can reenchant them your self anyway you like and many other such features. Features that will ensure you will come back to the college time and time again even after the colleges main plot is over and done with.

With new quests and features being added with each major update, this mod will get bigger over time and this description longer.

The Story so far.

Prior to the great collapse members of the College of Winterhold had discovered Dwemer ruins below the College main building and had occupied them and started exploring the many roads leading in and out of their area. These became known as a the Dark Roads, originally built by the Dwemer and abandoned after the Dwemer disappeared. Later occupied by the Dwemers Falmer Slaves as they revolted against their overlords before escaping in to the depths of the earth.

Now totally dark and the Dark Roads remain under the Falmer Control. The secrets of the Dwemer lost in the deep reaches of the Dark Roads, their achievements, their stories, their legendary figures, their myths and even their greatest cities and fortresses used to fight the Falmer, all forgotten, all lost in the Dark Roads where no race except the Falmer has been for thousands of years.

To the members of the college, their own activities in the Dark Roads hundreds of years earlier have also been lost, reduced to rumour and a few fairy tales the college tells to it's new recruits. Then one day a mage hears a scratching and banging beyond a door that had remained locked and sealed for hundreds of years since the great collapse blocked the passageways beyond it.

Something was coming through, something was clearing away the rubble and would seen attempt to breach the door protecting the college.

It is time to open that door and deal with this new threat knocking on the colleges back door.

Installation

Extract the mod directly in to your Skyrim game folder and it will automatically place its files in the correct places in the Data folder for you. Then enable the mod from the Data files menu on the Skyrim Splash Screen.

About this mods Lore.

I know I have reputation for strict lore mods from my Oblivion days but I have become sick to death of making mods for Lore that's incomplete and patchy. So for Skyrim I am taking what ever lore exists and filling in those holes my self. Then expanding on that lore and making it more complete. I make no apologies for this, this is intentional.

Strict lore only allows me to do what the lore said should have existed, where as normal lore mods allows me to use the lore in a lore friendly way to expand on the lore provided, providing it fits with the established lore and makes no lore unfriendly claims. So that is what I am doing here.

Lore is a very personal thing, in the past I presented you with actual lore and let you make up your own mind. This time I am presenting you with the lore as I see it, you will see my own personal interpretation of Skyrim lore unfold in this mod.
About Merchants

This mod adds some new merchants to go the game, below is a list of merchants and their opening hours. However, remember Skyrims time keeping is worse than Oblivions so do not expect these merchants to know it is opening time. 8am to them might actually be 12noon due to how Skyrim works. I am sure you have noticed this in the default game already.

Micky Moody = Alchemist, opens 8am til 8pm in the Hall of Gatherings.
Bernie Marsden = Enchanter, opens 8am til 8pm in the Hall of Gatherings.
Lonni Don = Misc Merchant, Opens 24/7 in the Cavern of Sorrows AFTER the first quest is completed.

Micky Moody
Because the Alchemy game sucks more than the mage game with its none respawning plants, this merchant will be used to ensure a steady supply of all items always exists in this mod regardless of whether you have picked clean the rest of the world. I may adjust this over time to increase quantity and the selection. Feedback is welcome on this for balancing etc.

Bernie Marsden
Because robes and other items tend to all be enchanted or impossible to buy in some cases, this merchant offers all those robes and masks you cannot buy in their unenchanted form, allowing you to buy them and then enchant them your self.

Lonni Don
This merchant supports players heading out in to the Dark Roads, he also provides various items that are common to mines and caves, so if your a smithy, you might want to visit him too.

College Trainers

All these are found in the Hall of Knowing and never leave the area and are always on duty.
Dwemer Studies Teacher = Master Alteration Trainer
Dragon Studies Teacher = Master Enchantment Trainer
Necromancy Teacher = Master Restoration Trainer
Undead Summoning Teacher = Master Conjuration Trainer
Daedric Studies Teacher = Master Destruction Trainer
College Speaker = Master Alchemy Trainer
Master Speaker = Master Illusion Trainer

Primary Quest Givers

In the current and future versions, these NPCs will be the NPCs to check for new quests.
Master Speaker = Wizards of Winterhold Main Quest provider.
Dwemer Studies Teacher = Dwemer related Quests
Dragon Studies Teacher = Dragon related Quests
Necromancy Teacher = Necromancy Quests
Undead Summoning Teacher = Currently Unused
Daedric Studies Teacher = Daedric Quests
College Speaker = Misc Side Quests
Master Druid = Ritual Summon Spell Quests

Available Quests.

Bump in the Night:
Available from the Master Speaker. This kick starts the Dark Roads Questline.

Summoner Quest:
Available from the Necromancy Teacher, this quest allows the player to be either a Dark Summoner or a Summoner of Light. Depending on which one the player choses he receives a reward each time a lost soul is taken care of. For Dark Summoners this is 70 points on the Conjuration Skill, for Summoners of Light this is 50 Points on the Conjuration Skill and 20 Points on the Speach Craft Skill. Both Light and Dark Summoners both receive the same bonus points, the points are just awarded for different skills.

Ritual Spell Quests:
Available from the Master Druid in one of the new Towers, he will give you several ritual summoning spells in exchange for certain items.

The Dark Roads Quest:
This story is told via a series of pop ups which award the player with Dwemer and Falmer Knowledge points which will be used to unlock future features. Exploration is all that is needed to do this quest. Do not expect this quest to show up in your logs, its not that type of quest.

Earning experience points.

Each quest earns the player experience points in a given field, in future versions this will become more and more important. The first quest, "Bump in the night" awards the player experience for Falmer and Dwemer studies to get you started. Later in future versions these points will earn you new perks and abilities. Enhancing your player in the area of study you earned the points in.

New Spells

Added in Version 1.5
Summon Black Bear
Summon Brown Bear
Summon Chicken
Summon Frost Troll
Summon Ice Wolf
Summon Sabre Cat
Summon Spriggan
Summon Wispmother

Available as random loot from Fort Blacklight (V2.0 Feature)
Dwemer Summon Centurion
Dwemer Summon Sphere
Dwemer Summon Spider

Available as random loot from the Necromancy Spells Bookshelf in the Necromancy class (V2.0 Feature)
Necromancer Summon Skeleton
Necromancer Summon Dragon Priest
Necromancer Summon Draugr Death Overlord
Necromancer Summon Draugr Overlord
Necromaner Summon Shade

New Recipes.

These are not directly related to mages but do support mage gameplay. I have added them because I like expanding game support for Role Play fans and a hunter mod on its own might be a little dull. So I have combined it with the College mod and its recipe's. These features have been designed to allow hunters to make a profit hunting and cooking recipes if they have a good merchant skill. It also allows Mages to brew up special potions to boost their abilities for a short time. Expect this list to grow in future versions. The Recipes marked with a * below are of special interest to mages.
Dragon Born Ale *
Beef & Mushroom Pie
Chicken & Ale Pie
Chicken & Mushroom Pie
Clam Chowder
Dog & Ale Pie
Dog & Mushroom Pie
Dog Soup
Fire Born Ale *
Frost Born Ale *
Goat & Mushroom Pie
Honey Chicken Breast
Honey Garlic Glazed Rabbit Leg
Honey Horker Meat
Honey Pheasant Breast
Honey Rabbit Leg
Honey Salmon Meat
Honey Venison Meat
Horker & Ale Pie
Horker & Mushroom Pie
Horse & Ale Pie
Horse & Mushroom Pie
Morahir's Magi Meal * (Special, several types of meat can be used to make this recipe)
Pheasant and Ale Pie
Pheasant & Mushroom Pie
Rabbit & Mushroom Pie
Steak & Ale Pie
Storm Born Ale *
Venison & Mushroom Pie

Notes on compatibility.

This mod is designed to edit as little as possible within the College of Winterhold so it will work with other College mods. During the design phase before the mod entered production it was decided that 2 doors needed adding or editing and 1 stair way needed blocking off for this mod to work. So a door was added to the Hall of attainment and the Door leading to the Archmages quarters was edited in the Hall of elements and pointed towards the new Hall of Gathering level. Now to reach the Archmages quarters you use the other door and go via the library. Also athe stairway had to be blocked off in the Archmages quarters. The Navmesh behind the blocked stairway is not edited, so the Archmages quarters can be renavmeshed by other mods too. Those are the only edits this mod makes to the default college.

Compatibility is something you design in to your mods, it is not something you can add later, this mod was designed to have this small compatibility foot print so it can be used with other college mods. However because these are the very bare min edits needed for this mod to work, none of them can be removed if a conflict arises, sorry.

If I do make edits to the main college later, I will probably do it as a separate ESP for eye candy updates and other unimportant additions that can be removed without affecting the main College of Winterhold quest mod. If any modder out there does an eye candy overhaul of the college and it works with this mod, please do let me know and I'll mention it in these docs in future releases.
Choice is a good thing!

Installation

Subscribe to the mod on Steam Workshop and then launch Skyrim, leave the Skyrim Splash Screen up and wait, if you look at data files the mod will appear in there when its downloaded and installed.

Uninstalling the mod

To uninstall the mod, unsubscribe from the mod on Steam Workshop and then delete the following files.

Teg_whiterun_restored.bsa
Teg_whiterun_restored.esp

Problem with the Mod ?

It is becoming clear that downloading from Steam Workshop sometimes corrupts the mod in random ways, causing reports I cannot confirm or fix to be reported to me on a regular basis. If you experience problems follow the uninstall procedure above but do not unsubscribe form the mod. Then wait for the files to be downloaded again from Steam Workshop by launching Skyrim and waiting at the Splash screen as explained in the Installation section above. Hopefully the newly downloaded files will not be corrupt and will work correctly.

Version 0.8 Beta Users

If you downloaded the mod from the Guild to try out the beta, you will probably be using the ESM version which is now obselete. Go in to your data folder and delete the TEG_Wizards_Of_Winterhold.esm file and then go in to \data\Sound\Voice and either delete the TEG_Wizards_Of_Winterhold.esm folder or rename it to TEG_Wizards_Of_Winterhold.esp.

If you delete both the file and folder, just download the new version and install that, it will replace the folder with the correct one and fix any upgrade issues automatically.

Voice Actor Credits.

(Voice Actor = Voice File Set)
Doombuggie41= Unused Set
Dow = Unused Set
Nakia = Unused Set
Stubbkrossen = Unused Set
Bethlen = WowBethlenkhajiit
Bethlen = WowBethlenOld
Bob Gordon = WowBobGordon
Euther = WowEuther
Euther = WowEutherkhajiit
Giskard = WOWGiskardVoiceTypeMale
Happy Monday (Gaz) = WowhappymondayCommon
Happy Monday (Gaz) = Wowhappymondaykhajiit
Happy Monday (Gaz) = WowhappymondayNormal
Hrothgar = WowHrothgar
Jag Garrick = WowJagGarrick
Kim = WowKimMrKDaughter
Mr K = WowMrK
NDCowdy = WowNDCowdy
Nowena = WowNowena
Sarah = WowSarahHappymonday

Special thanks.

Mr K
For organizing my Voice actors Guild and making the Va process run smoothly, processing over 500 lines is a nightmare usually.
HappyMonday
For helping Mr K and for misc assistance with Voice work in our Voice Actor Guild. His experience proved very useful this time around.
Doombuggie41
For the Wave to XWM converter, without which this mod would have been over 250meg at version 1.

Licence

This mod was created by Giskard, Aka GiskardUK. Permission to edit in anyway, upload it or make patches from it is denied out right. Those who did it in the past cause too much trouble and since my generiousity usually gets used as ammo to shoot me with, my answer to all such requests is time is an out right NO. Go and make your own wizard mod.

People wishing to translate this mod in to languages other than English may contact me, I have had no bad experiences letting none english speakers translate my mods and I am still happy to allow it. Providing you ask first.

Steams license in full to the file I upload to Steam and not for files I upload anywhere else even if it is the same mod. Should Steams license change in the future, I reserve the right to remove the mod from steam if I dislike the new license in anyway.

Change log

V1.01

Removed some left over junk, added new doors leading up to the archmages quarters through the library to help avoid possible crashes if another mod edits the default doors back to min use. Should help increase compatibility with other college mods.

V1.02

Fixes an issue that caused the floor in the Temple of dibella to disappear, caused by corruption. The temple was never edited.

V1.1

Adjusted a door and frame in the Hall of Gatherings so they lighted up correctly.
Made all the imagespaces used custom to stop image Enhances spoiling the mods dark look. This means image enhances can now be used safely with this mod with no side effects. Which should help with compatibility.
Added the new Summoner Quest to the Necromancer Teacher in the hall of knowing.

V1.1.1

Removed the old code from the Summoner perk that was draining the magicka of the player too fast when the player tried casting any spells, it was used to test the old summoner quest code that proved unreliable due to how the scripting language now works. Added the correct 10% less magicka bonus to it instead. So all spells cost 10% less magicka to case which was the intention in the first place.

V1.2

Added several new levels to part of the Darkroads and implimented an update warning system to inform the player the mod has been updated and tell them basically what is new in the current version. This version impliments some Dwemer Knowledge features and provides renewable resources for smithies.

V1.2.1

Removed unwanted edits from Ragnvald Crypts which appeared in the mod as if by magic, removed other magically created editors to cells too including Mzulft Aedrome and Kilkreath Ruins edits as well as other areas I have never touched. Interesting how cells I have not edited appear edited in Skyrims new Creation kit, dont you think.... Also added a brand new section to the docs of all my mods about installing, uninstalling and fixing issues since Steam Workshop it self seems to be a source of many problems.

V1.2.2

Fixed up some Navmesh issues reported to me by Skyrim 1.6 beta patch users. Will run full tests my self of the 1.6 patch after it comes out of beta.

V1.5

Added Ritual summon spells, and 20+ new NPCS as well as 4 new towers to the main college. This means this mod is no longer compatible with other college editing mods. The decision was based on player requests to edit the rest of the college. So expect some conflicts to arise from this change of policy.

V2.0

Added Necromancy and Dwemer Spells to the game as well as Fort Blacklight to continue the darkroads plot line. This is a major update and a mile stone for the mod it self.

Support on Steam

This mod was made for me and my friends to enjoy, No support is offered, no complaints heard, no feedback wanted. Trolls, moaners, whiners and other idiots will be BLOCKED immediately. The mod maker only accepts feedback and bug reports via his own forum where he and his friends can be found.

[simfamSP]

Giskard I'll be avoiding this entierly until I make a mage character. I WAS going to make a assassin Dunmer guy, but now... it seems I have no choice ;-) Theives Guild, Mage and Bard college it is then!

[giskard]

I did all the guides right away, my new character is a female mage which is the one I used on the video. Btw the mic is my new one and it sucks, see my blog. Need to spend about £100 on a good one I think, these mics are just not up to the job.

[Jag Garrick]

I'm probably not the most qualified to comment, since I'm still waiting to play Skyrim, but based on what I've heard so far and what you've said in the video that sounds like a fantastic idea for a mod. I'm planning to play an Imperial student cast out from the Arcane University, so it would be ideal to be able to join the College early on and keep up the study throughout the game. It would be great to have something that really feels like a university, rather than just a Mages Guild. I particularly like the idea of being able to study particular areas of magic/lore and gain particular abilities - certainly speaking from experience of Oblivion a low-powered but unique and characterful ability is far more rewarding that another overpowered spell or weapon. And rebuilding Winterhold also sounds good. The whole mod seems like a good opportunity to provide the kind of lore-delivery of Origins of the Mages Guild in whatever areas you choose. It would certainly be something I can see forming a major part of my game.

I really hope the Creation Kit is up to this. Do you expect it to be pretty much the same as before, or could it realistically be totally different?

[Nowena]

Yes! This sounds fantastic, Gis. However, I haven't gotten to Winterhold just yet. I keep getting sidetracked. So, I will have to keep my peace until I really know something that can be helpful.

[Joefromsingapore]

I really like the idea of a College overhaul and the Hogwarts inspiration is a nice touch! One could also touch on the subject on some of the conjurers that have left the college to practice elsewhere, or perhaps the struggle to get recognition in Skyrim, a little bit of Public Diplomacy efforts, which ties nicely in with your ideas of the Winerhold integration. More shops, alchemy for instance, would make perfect sense! also, perhaps add child prodigy students? a hall for children? something along those lines... ill get in more depth with this once I come home later

[DOW]

I am glad you are doing a College of mages upgrade first. I would like to Voice act for you, so just let me know when that time comes.

The college is pretty but is lacking things to do as you said in your video. So I have a few idea where you can put buildings.
I think you could place towers round the edge of the college and have about 2 or 3 imbatween the main building and the 2 existing towers. They could be over the edge, so as tall as you needed. Also as they are over the edge they could go down as far as you needed, avoiding the dungeon underneath. As for how they are their? Magic from that Orb? Their is a quest after the main college quest about how the power has spread over that part of Skyrim. Or just build them from the ground up, giving you space. They could even be connected by the library stair case with a door leading out.

As I was watching the video, the areas next to the bridge on the town side could also have small buildings on them.

Magic. I was hoping you might add spells and summons that have been left out. Such as summon scamps. Only just realised how many of the spells are missing.

Sounds good so far Giskard.

[CNC]

College of winterhold was the first guild I done and well looked great at first but is all eye candy

only really has 3 main rooms

Since it is limited in room and size may I sugest the roof might provide good space to add a few little towers and gate ways for room.
Also perhaps try set up a wizards council but not so much like the mages guild, these are all like the head teachers in magic and each have there own tower or hideout around skyrim for there own dangerous experiments(given how much the college puts on safety, these towers would be there safe havens and given the council wizards know there own abilty and general wisdom they left to there own devices)
And can be connected to the college though portals
This way can throw in some notable chracters perhaps a vampire with a werewolf test subect/ assistant

I dont think poltics or battle mages should be involed so much since its really just an outcast college, it hasnt got any laws on the land and just devoted to study, hasnt got any major poltical ties or alike, at most maybe a few battle mages for protection but nothing like complete class room over.
The place should try be a bit diffrent from the mages guild and not a rehash

A rivaly between the Synod would be a good way to try add some sort of rivaly, like an expedition to a dwemer runin and they try to intervine and take over, perhaps sometimes a work together or perhaps a few students fighting with them in the local inn and need to sort it out. Perhaps give them a small office somewhere jsut as an overlooker, set up an agreement that the college shares a few things and the synod shares a few things(like star concellations what give information on new dwemer runins considering they do have that old dwemer orrey in Cyrodill).

I dont think there was any proper expedition quest in skyrim like setting up tents inside and out of nord runins or dwemer runins and as the player advances so does the expedition members.

Perhaps add more generic students walking around given the place feels alittle to empty

can trade in dwemer related things for scrolls and soul gems and perhaps find small dwemer artifacts like swords with there own unique enchantments etc.. to be traded, perhaps a small muesum or same with daedric artifacts can turn them in and put them up for display.

Perhaps through ina few books from morrowind and oblivion what dident quite make it in to oblivion and can even though in old history lessons about past games considering they happened 200 years ago(A legend of a theif who stole a certain scroll) or recorded fight of the king of worms and how he could still live on though the events of daggerfall.
Could study Nord cultures like the one in Bloodmoon and the ritual of the same name etc...

if books can use diffrent languages like dwemer and falmar perhaps throw in translation books and the player needs to properly trasnlate them and if they dont want to cna pay someone else to do it but can cost the player quite alot.

sorry if went abit overboard on the planning stage, just brain storming

[giskard]

Thanks all, especially Cnc, I pretty much agree with most, not all of what you said there mate.

Regarding the Daedric summoning circle and the atronach forge below the College.

I am not even going to say how closely some of the Skyrim game features match or even copy my mods anymore, lets just say I can see the devs have played my mods and liked some of the ideas. So lets take full advantage of the added support for the ideas.

Starting with the Daedric Summoning Circle and the Atronach Forge.

This can either be a secret cult within the College studying Daedra against the College rules or an organized class, since those items are found below ground in a hidden location, I would say summoning daedric is against the college rules and the group is likely to be some sort of dead poets society style affair.

Necromancer also seems to have its limits, the staff say if your going to do it, find an out of the way place like below the college to do it, so we might have a special group for that too.

The Spells in the game are much more tactical in nature, for example frost cancels out fire and visa versa, lightning drains magicka, Making combat with spells much more interesting. So we could have class on battle spells and how to use them. A step towards training to be a battle mage.

The other thing is all these spirits and powerful artifacts we keep seeing turn up during the various plots, each one could be a focus of a series of quests to get to the bottom on them instead of just killing something to win. Studying an enchantment for example or breaking it down to learn a power so you can complete a quest that requires you to combine what you learned with a special item to make something needed to finish a quest. Then you take what you made and go and do the quest.

All of it requires knowledge that a mage should know, so it works well.

[Joefromsingapore]

I like the idea of individual towers for the teachers, since they are the expert trainers in the field, and it reminds me sort of like the Telvanni from Morrowind!

I feel its important to keep remembering that the perception of Magic in Skyrim differs vastly from Cyrodiil and it really is frowned upon by the majority of the general population, if not feared. Nord Warriors have no need for magic! (which is odd considering the simplicity of the magic system in the game!). The mages must feel like the characters from X-Men!


Also, I wonder if its present in the lore somewhere, but I wonder what the relationship between the various Hold Wizards, like Farengar in Whiterun, is with the College. Surely powerful wizards would care about the college? keep in contact for the latest news or break-throughs in magic in their various school? Perhaps they were once teachers themselves, who were sacked or disagreed with management?

[giskard]

Any major changes to the college are a none starter of an idea.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

I intend to make a large low impact mod for the first mod for skyrim. Adding a lot to a lot of new areas accessed by low impact doorways that cause as few problems as possible for other mods. The entire Cyrodiil Upgrade was only possible because of this approach and Kvatch Aftermath only made as many mistakes as it did because I was not doing this when that mod was first made.

Kvatch Rising is how KA would have turned out IF it had followed that plan.

The idea here is to basically leave most areas alone and only edit the parts that must be edited to make a room functioning correctly. Everything else is getting added to brand new rooms, accessed through brand new doors, placed in locations where they are unlikely to get in the way.

At least that is the plan

The arcanium us the one thats likely to see the most edits, possibly the arch mages room.

[Garathil]

It would be very interesting to actually have some real classes happening, like teachers demonstrating spells and then explaining what they do, their weaknesses, best uses and more. Giving it a real feel like your learning. Something like the first quest of the college. I did the quests at level 15 and died a lot because i had to figure out most of the spells on my own.

[giskard]

The mages game is very very very very very very sort in Skyrim so there is a lot of work to do sorting that out. I think I am going to have to do a lot more than I expected to make it interesting and still not flood skyrim with mages and break the lore.

[Jag Garrick]

I liked the sound of the tactical magic combat you were talking about in the blog - the fire and ice cancelling each other out, the lightning draining magika and the idea of a mages duel being a case of wearing down the other side's magic before he does the same to you. Not sure if it's your sort of thing or not, but adding more spell effects (or even more spells using the existing effects, given we can't make our own anymore) would give the mage more options and make the magic combat even more tactical. It could be delivered in the form of further lessons to follow on from the one already in the game.

I think you don't have to flood Skyrim with mages but just develop the College itself, and from there the player can be sent out on missions throughout Skyrim. That way you get to be doing mage business all over the province and then returning each time to a little oasis of wizardry, without changing the anything about how the rest of the Nords see magic.

[giskard]

I agree, there is a lot one college can do to make up for the short fall.

[Joefromsingapore]

I do like how some of the students are actively trying out their spells and practicing in the main hall, thats a nice touch. A few more students would be nice though.

[giskard]

Wait until one of them turns you in to a Cow, see if you still like it Joe

[Joefromsingapore]

Wait until one of them turns you in to a Cow, see if you still like it Joe

haha I suppose work hazards like that could happen

[giskard]

Feedback from Nathikal on youtube.

Thoughts on College of Winterhold P&D

Hello Giskard,

I wanted to bring up a few thoughts on the video you posted, thoughts without the YouTube comment restraint.

First, I know you were thinking of expanding the Hall of the Elements with a corridor. Do you think it would be 'better' to expand the hall - make it a grander place, perhaps something that actually involves the elements? It seems like adding a hall would require more external work, but adding a few doors or expanding the room might be easier in the long run. It might be a bit pointless, but in another game (Neverwinter Nights 2) there was an area that was based on the four seasons - each room was designed around that theme. Perhaps the Hall of the Elements could be expanded so that it covers four seasons? Four rooms, arranged in a circular pattern - four copies of the main room but with some elemental principles or differences.

Second, I really like the idea of having the various departments. My favorite part of Origin of the Mages Guild was the Ayleid and Dwemer studies departments. The lore they added was very nice, especially the Daughter of the Niben mini/misc quest. I also like the idea of having leveled perks, ala Oblivion's skill system, for the various colleges.

I really hope that you plan to add dragon lore as a study. Or, since dragon lore would be assuming a great deal since they were believed to be myths until nowish (or it could be a very haphazard, hastily-gathered thing now that the dragons have returned) ancient Nord lore. If nothing else, it could provide uses for the various pieces of dragon remains that clutter inventories.

I am very glad that you plan to fix the library. I can't understand what Beth was thinking about when they made going to the library stealing unless you did the librarian a favor.

Actually, an idea just struck me. If it were possible to create a new form of crafting (say, create a specialized desk that is a crafting bench) then you could have a whole academic system wrapped around producing the one thing that has been the bane of my college life: papers.

Say that you put in a bunch of generic books -- such as Untranslated Dwemer Text. These are useless until they are translated, but in their old age are relatively ruined. Thus, if one were to take a handful of these texts and go to the crafting desk, they could be combined into a Translated Dwemer Text. Creating one translated text counts towards the ticker for additional lore in that one particular department. Now, it wouldn't be fun if the system were just there to take these texts and translate them...

As one progresses down the line of departmental lore, they can produce works of greater quality and clarity as well as take on specialized projects. Translated texts can be combined en masse into other works, and at a certain point the player can write articles on various topics, which in turn can be turned into thesis papers, and those in turn into whole books. Each level of things have their own ranking system, based on the resources invested. So if the default Dwemer Article takes 3 Translated Dwemer Texts, then the player can make a Dwemer Article (Weak) with just one text, or a Dwemer Article (Strong) with five. These in turn allow for better things further down the line -- so the player can invest more into each rank.

The system will eventually allow the player's character to publish books on the subject at higher ranks, by combining specialized thesis papers. For example, a Dwemer Armor Textbook would be made up of a Dwemer Thesis: Helmets, a Dwemer Thesis: Platemail, a Dwemer Thesis: Greaves and a Dwemer Thesis: Gauntlets, which each in turn require the associated Dwemer piece (ie., a Dwemer helmet in addition to the generic thesis pieces for a Dwemer Thesis: Helmets) -- so the textbook on Dwemer armor requires the player to have consumed a suit of Dwemer armor.

Now, the main reason to make these is for the sake of leveling up the player's rank in that subject. For an arbitrary value system, if each translated text is worth one point, then the ranks above it are worth a multiple of that -- so a strong article (taking 5 translated texts) could give 5 points (one per book) * 1.2 (for an article) * 2 (for a strong article) for a total of 12 points back. To make the process much less painful, the college will certainly have a wide selection of previously-compiled lore that can be acquired in limited amounts.

Of course, all that work for JUST a rank in a skill seems pointless, and will likely cause much hatred. Thus, each produced work can be used for a few things -- donated to the college (gives a flat amount of XP back), traded directly for money, used as a skill book (if one were to write a book on dwemer armor, they'd likely gain some knowledge of smithing in the process), or given to the department (gives some trinket or unique thing to the player). Perhaps the books could just be kept -- if ultimately the player can craft books, those could be compilations of lore that you and others have found. So the Dwemer Armor Textbook could have a few pages of lore regarding Dwemer Armor.

If you add other students to the college in each department, then repeatable quests could be done to help other students with their homework -- by crafting them or bringing them articles, pieces of equipment, etc., as well as general checks based on the lore that one has in that department. Some quests can be circumvented by just being intelligent about the subject at hand. This builds up friendships with the students in a department, which in turn gives gifts as per the AI, and helping a student with an assignment affords a measure of experience in the department as well.

Now, if you are particularly adventurous, then a grading system and competition between students would be interesting. But that sounds like way too much work to me. I do feel that allowing the PC to study everything should have a penalty, like a limited number of points to put into the whole of the studies -- if the player can just become stronger or have an edge against everything because they studied everything, it would utterly annihilate any sense of realism. Perhaps let the player tour the college departments and get to learn something about each one and then choose one or two to specialize in.

I like the idea of perks that can be applied in the 'real world'. It'd be nice if one could focus one's studies on the current magic schools and alchemy to get bonus effects for their work, as well as the pets.

I strongly disagree with the townsfolk forming a mob to attack the college -- it would be more than just a little one-sided. Mercenaries and the town guard, perhaps, as well as a handful of brave souls? I really couldn't bring myself to unleash fiery hell on the peasantry.

The expansion of the college, as well as the increased trade, could allow for plenty of interesting 'make these to trade' quests -- such as selling a bunch of nifty potions or enchanting a few things here and there.

I would be more than happy to do some research regarding lore-topics and perhaps have at writing a few of the textbooks for the end result. I'm already envisioning a wall of books with my character's name as the author.

Forgive the wall of text. I hope it's somewhat useful, or at least an amusing read.
~Nathikal

[giskard]

Some thoughts of mine based on the feedback I have received across several sites.

First the idea of the town attacking the college does not really fit with the plan for the mod and may introduce compatibility issues later if others edit the town it self.

Second, focusing on Dwemer, Dragon, Daedric and Necromantic studies first may work best and may work well like this.

Dwemer Studies

As the Archmage the player has to collect items for use by the college in the new Dwemer studies group, the items have to be fetched from existing dwemer ruins so there is a lot of Goffering about, go for this, go for that to build up the new study group. As the player does this he slowly unlocks features for further Dwemer quests to represent the way his or her own knowledge has increased as a result of all this fetching.

At which point I'll adopt the ideas above from one youtube user and have the player carry out a series of quests for thesis on the topic, that will eventually lead to the player being able to read Dwemer text that he finds during his goffer quests and in the process unlocks further more profitable advantures for unique items that the player may find handy. Typically powerful enchantments as a reward for getting this far seems to be a pretty easy reward to offer but if you have ideas here post them below.

As the study group becomes better equipped the number of students in it will increase and the number of questions they ask will rise too. Allowing the player to aid them in their research as the player learns about these topics, I may not give any clues as to these quests, I may expect the player to KNOW this stuff having done the early quests and act like a teach rather than following a bunch of quest arrows.

The Dwemer Studies group would start as an almost empty room and slowly build up in to a proper research department with classes etc.

Dragon Studies

The arrival of the Dragons will spark an new field of study that sees the player visiting various Dragon Shrines to investigate them and bring back items of interest. This school will include work surrounding the Dragon Priests, the Dragon Priest Masks, fiction about the early days when Dragon overlords ruled Skyrim and Dragon Scales as well as studies in to other uses of those scales. I may produce special stuff made from the Dragon Scales as a reward for following this quest line, but it will probably have to be a reskin because I have no intention of messing with Blender at this point.

A spin off group of Dragon Cultists may appear in secret locations within the college when this study group first appears and they may cause the player problems and create yet another break away group that disappears out in to Skyrim and becomes a baddie faction later.

Studies in this area can perhaps lead to Dragon Perks for the player that aid in defeating some of the harder dragons in the late game.

Necromantic Studies

The study of the dead and how to prolong life tends to be the study of dead bodies and enchantments used to bind souls to bodies, so we will be revisiting the old Necromancer Guild idea from my Oblivion mods here, but I am afraid Skyrim has less support for magic and especially Necromancer spells than Oblivion did and may yet be seen as a terribly stripped down TES game in this area so I am going to have to be very creative in this department, and that needs a lot of thought because the support does not exist at all for many of my Necromancer ideas.

Perhaps explaining the method of binding souls to bodies to bring them to life may be the direction to take here and stick to the theory, then let the students create problems for the Archmage as he study group grows and the Archmage is forced to clean up their mess.

Possibly making these issues in to repeatable quests.

Daedric Studies

This study group lacks a great deal of support too, unlike Oblivion where Daedric artifacts and Daedric features where common, Skyrim is terribly stripped down in this area so I may have to focus on Daedric lore, Daedric prince knowledge and other such things to make this work.

There is a wealth of lore knowledge about the Daedric princes that may be used and several Daedra characters are in the game by default so there is enough existing material to work with.

So a set of quest focusing on studying each Daedric prince, by asking people or reading books in order to build up knowledge about them first seems like a good way to go. Then when the Students start arriving we can introduce problems with the ways they experiment with Daedre devices and Daedric knowledge like any normal college would experience.

Possibly making these issues in to repeatable quests.